hrj: (Default)
[personal profile] hrj
So I recently posted a place-holder that I was "pondering doing a deeply contemplative and self-revealing post" based on a discussion on a friend’s journal (which I’ve noticed was friends-locked, so I’m not going to be too specific on that end). The metaphor used there was "eating worms" (as in "nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I think I’ll go eat worms"). My personal image is "taking a vacation in nobody-loves-me-land". And the specific version I wanted to talk about is that vicious spiral where the experience or memory of an unpleasant (usually alienating) social event leads one to rehearse a litany of past similar experiences that in turn make it difficult for the mind to occupy itself with anything outside of this negative emotional recycling process.

The last time I contemplated an introspective post on this topic, I had to drop it because the immediate impulse to write about it was a brief relapse and I was still a bit too hung-over (metaphorically hung-over, that is) to do it dispassionately. Because, you see, several years ago I took a personal vow to give up the diet of worms. (More on that later.) And mostly I’ve been quite successful, which brings me to a necessary disclaimer. This essay is, and can only be, about my personal experiences. I have reason to believe that there is enough common ground in my experiences that it’s worth blogging about, but the last thing I want to imply is that anyone else will have exactly the same experience of this phenomenon as me. And I particularly want to acknowledge that while I’m talking about a phenomenon that exists within the larger definition of “depression”, I’m quite aware that many types of depression, and especially the more severe forms, are not “self-inflicted” and are not susceptible to the sort of mental control that I’m eventually going to talk about here.

One of the reasons I wanted to blog about this is – as I mentioned in that previous discussion elsewhere – that I’ve found one of the best antidotes to the diet of worms is to drag the issue out kicking and screaming into the light of day. To make mock of it, not in a way that denies its validity, but in a way that takes away its power to isolate me further in a prison of the fear of vulnerability. Few things make me more emotionally invulnerable than a willingness to parade my psyche naked down the street. Does it require strength to do so? Or does doing so make me strong? I dunno. All I know is that when I’ve been the most tied up in knots over something, the fastest and most efficient way of getting out has been to tell the people around me what’s going on in my head. In a calm, analytical, non-whiny, but completely honest fashion. “Speak truth to neurosis” and it begins to loosen its grip a little. And I’ve found that the most unexpected people have also partaken of the Diet of Worms – and are surprised to find that I have, which leads me to believe that there may be a useful value in standing up and shouting, “I am Spartacus and I eat worms!”

Well, enough of the rambling intro.

This discussion isn’t about me being shy and introverted – although those things have contributed to the specific cuisine in which my worms have been served – because I know from talking to others that the diet of worms is not consumed only by the shy or the introverted. As far back as I can remember, I’ve had a very clear notion (on which we will suspend judgments of validity) that I’ve had very few friends, that I’ve had no really close friends, and that my peers in general found me to be socially invisible and irrelevant. This is the compost on which my worms feed and I, in turn, feed on them, confirming to myself the truth of all these observations by the loving and detailed recollection of every piece of evidence for their validity.

And that evidence exists – of course it does. I didn’t make this all up out of my imagination. I could provide a detailed and documented list of The Wrong What The World Has Done Me – but that, of course, would be breaking my vow and it isn’t what this little essay is about. The essay is about what happens next.

So something happens, and I recollect a Wrong. And in lingering over that Wrong, my mind sets foot on the path to nobodylovesmeland. And I wander along the path, noting the sights and vistas along the way. Which – funny thing – all remind me of other Wrongs. Next thing I know, I’m deep inside the borders and the entire landscape around me is Wrong. The path has disappeared and I’m wandering over hill and dale immersed in Wrong and confirming to myself that the entire world is full of nothing but Wrong.

Well, it’s a nice metaphor, but not a terribly useful description of a mechanism. IANAD (I am not a doctor – well, no, I am a doctor – IANAMD) but what I perceive going on in my head is that the memory of a negative emotional experience induces my body to produce biochemical changes in response similar to those produced at the original experience, and just as the aroma of cinnamon and caramel brings back all the delicious sticky-buns of my life, the perception of negative-biochemical-stuff by my brain stimulates and activates the recollection of other memories that produced that same biochemical soup in the past. So the negative memories produce brain changes that stimulate further negative memories that produce further brain changes …. (I’m quite certain that there must be studies on the phenomenon already, but this is my blog about my subjective experience, so I don’t really care.)

So the question is: why do it? I don’t have to eat a sticky-bun every time I smell cinnamon; I don’t have to eat worms every time I remember something bad. Well, for me, part of the answer is that eating worms is a richly intense emotional and physical experience. And in the absence of the experience of (or access to) any similarly intense positive experiences, it can be quite delicious. It’s like craving chocolate with a heroin-like craving and the only chocolate available is unsweetened fudge. It’s like having one of those dreams where you dream you’re thirsty because you’re sleeping with your mouth open and it’s gotten all dry, and in your dream you keep drinking glass after glass of water, but you only get thirstier because not only are you not drinking real water, but you’re sucking up air and drying your mouth out even more. And while I’m in the moment I stop caring that I’m giving myself a splitting headache and avoiding human contact because I’m likely to start crying spontaneously … and, of course, that I’m making it even less likely that I’ll have an opportunity to experience any events that would contradict what the worms are whispering in my stomach. Because in the moment I’m enjoying it. And I have control over the ability to enjoy it. And it’s available to me any time I want it. It’s reliable and dependable. And it’s mine … all mine … my precioussssssss.

*ahem* Where was I?

So why not do it? Well, quite frankly, because it gives me a hangover. Seriously. A visit to nobodylovesmeland can make me less productive for days on end and will literally give me a splitting headache. And – this is the kicker – my rational brain understands that in order to maintain the whole “nobody loves me, I have no friends, nobody wants to hang out with me, I’m invisible” thing I need to deny the existence of any contradictory events or experiences. Which means that, even if they don’t know about it, I’m metaphorically kicking in the teeth of anyone who ever did notice me and hang out with me and be my friend.

And, in the end, it was the cognitive dissonance that made me decide to give it up. Back several years ago there had been a small string of SCA anniversary-type parties for people who had been active for a similar time-depth as me that got a lot of attention as being Major Social Events. And I’d been thinking and talking idly about maybe throwing a little party to commemorate the 25th anniversary of my Laurel. But when I started mentally comparing my plans and their likelihood of success with what I saw other people doing around me, the worms started whispering that there wasn’t any point. Nobody would come to my party. They’d be too busy flossing the cat. (Ok, gotta veer away quick now, something’s wiggling just out of the corner of my eye.) And just when I’d convinced myself to not even bother, I got presented with an invitation to an anniversary party in my honor, put on by a bunch of incredibly cool people (some of whom I didn’t even realize knew who I was). And I realized that even if none of those people ever knew about my trips to nobodylovesmeland, any minute I spent there from now on would be a kick in the teeth to them. (The reasoning is just as invalid as its converse, but it made a useful tool.) Could I have made the decision without the party? Sure. Probably. Eventually. I certainly hope so. But it helped.

I haven’t been perfect. I’ve backslid a couple of times (including the previous time when I tried to write this essay). And the World hasn’t stopped Doing Me Wrong. But having done the analysis and made the decision, I’ve found that I can walk away from the worms if I choose to. I may have to distract myself with something bright and shiny for a couple days until the brain chemistry sorts itself out again. It’s sort of like trying to take an extremely large and boisterous dog for a walk in a park with lots of squirrels. Keep it on the path; don’t get pulled off balance; if it gets off-leash you’ll have a hell of a time getting it back under control. And I’ve found that there are a few topics and situations that I think I’m just going to have to avoid entirely because for some unknown reason they overwhelm my strategies. This is the reason I’m 99% decided to stop going to Consonance or other filk conventions. I don’t know why, but filking has become a major worm-pit for me and there simply isn’t enough positive stuff there for me to balance it out.

I have to work at it. But so far it seems to be succeeding for the most part. And I only occasionally miss the taste of worms.

Date: 2008-02-15 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kahnegabs.livejournal.com
Thank you for posting this.
Since I've digested a lot of worms from time to time in my days, I think I need to ponder on this for awhile.

It will most likely do my diet some good!

Date: 2008-02-16 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
It will be interesting to see the results of your pondering, if you're willing to share.

Date: 2008-02-15 10:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mastersantiago.livejournal.com
Thanks for sharing that. And I'm glad to know that the party had that much impact for you. It makes it that much cooler over all. Still one of my favorite SCA memories.

Date: 2008-02-16 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
In an abstract way, I'm a little uncomfortable that it did make that much difference -- because if nobody had thrown me a party, would it mean that they really didn't love me?

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Date: 2008-02-15 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liadan-m.livejournal.com
I understand this, and it's part of the reason that I've been much less active in the society for the past couple of years. I screwed up, and I don't want to have to lean on a support structure I'm no longer internally certain is there, even though there is evidence that it exists and will support me.

Rest of comment deleted, because I think it deserves it's own post.

Date: 2008-02-16 12:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
(Partially in response to some of the details in your other post.)

One of my kinks is that I have a horror of leaning on support structures of any kind. (This is on the principle of "it's nobody else's responsibility to make sure I have a good time".) Of course, it isn't a "support structure" if I truly believe that I'm one of the gang -- like at the 'Zoo.

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Date: 2008-02-15 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joecoustic.livejournal.com
I am sincerely glad I friended you, if for no other reason than getting to read this post! I too made this decision to not go there a number of years ago, but I have had my own relapse recently. Thank you for the reminder of what it is and what it isn't.

Date: 2008-02-16 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
Ah, I have fulfilled my purpose in life! :) (I'm quite serious about the whole "I am Spartacus and I eat worms" thing. Being "the only one" isn't at all what it's cracked up to be.)

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From: [identity profile] green-knight.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-18 11:37 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-02-15 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] duchessletitia.livejournal.com
I think we eat the same worms. Or maybe we just dig the worms up in the same way. I am very glad that I finally got myself to believe that you actually know who I am. :-)

Date: 2008-02-16 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
Hey -- you want to hang out sometime this weekend or next?

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Date: 2008-02-15 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] green-knight.livejournal.com
Nobodylovesmeland is a familiar place, I'm surprised we haven't met there....


For me, I think, it's been livejournal. While I don't get 80+ comment threads other people attract, I am provably not sitting here on my own - there are over a hundred people who have my LJ on their reading list, and most of them comment on it at one time or another. That's not 'without friends', is it? There are more than fourty people on my 'I trust this person with some very personal stuff' filter - not exactly friendless. And I have a few close friends whom I don't see very often but we *do* e-mail from time to time, and all of my friends have been *incredibly* supportive when I was going through a really really REALLY bad patch.

I still feel like eating worms on occasion, particularly if nobody has the time to comment on my LJ for several posts in a row, but I'm reminding myself that I don't comment on each of the several hundred posts I scan every day - economies of scale, not personal insults.

And this icon, which I created very early on, has seen *a lot* less workout than I thought it would. I don't think I've used it more than two or three times in the past six months.

From where I'm sitting, you seem to have this human contact thing pretty much sussed out, though. I miss your dating reports, though... whatever happened to them?

Date: 2008-02-16 12:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
I sometimes think the primary reason I do the "philosophy" posts is because I get external validation that people are reading me! LJ really helps at the level of "people I don't know that well yet that I'd like to get to know better but I have no idea how to find an opening." It isn't quite as good as meatspace friends, but it's easier to crack into.

There'll be more dating posts next month -- the next event I have tickets for is at the end of March. There are a couple of women I need to drop an e-mail to, now that the holiday craziness is well past -- just to see if they're interested in any more follow-up. But so far the defined "win conditions" have been satisfied by getting as far as a first date. A step at a time.

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Date: 2008-02-15 11:31 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-02-16 12:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
By the way, the only reason I hadn't previously added you to my reading list was because the posts on your journal were so sparse that I thought you'd set it up as a reading-only account. Browsing back a little, I noticed your December post about wishing you showed up in people's photos other than as the court herald -- amen, sister (except that I don't do court heraldry). I confess that when people post pointers to their on-line event albums I'm always secretly hoping to appear as something other than half-cut-off background to some other scene.

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Date: 2008-02-16 12:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anotheranon.livejournal.com
Thanks for posting this - a good bit of your description of the downward spiral to nobodylovesmeland sounds awfully familiar :/

I've been in that loop a few times myself, and my reasons for going there are somewhat different - I keep thinking that if I dwell on what went wrong I'll figure out where it went wrong and thus circumvent it in the future. As you've figured out, dwelling doesn't work.

I think it takes incredible nerve to defang the beast by sharing it with others!

Date: 2008-02-16 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
Well, I confess the first couple of times I did something like this, it took nerve. After a while you discover that the earth doesn't actually open up under your feet ... and that more people say "me too" than "ha ha!"

While dwelling doesn't work as an antidote, I definitely find that -- for me -- analyzing it does. I've kept my sanity in this crazy world largely by becoming an alien anthropologist.

Date: 2008-02-16 02:00 am (UTC)
lferion: Art of pink gillyflower on green background (Gillyflower)
From: [personal profile] lferion
Nodnod. I recognize that landscape, even though I travel it differently. Thank you for posting this -- good food for thought!

And, 'cause I know I haven't said it enough, thank you for being in my life!

You may be amused to know that the feast-box with the padding that you gave me gets wonderful comments every time I bring it out. I still really love it, and enjoy explaining that you made it.

Date: 2008-02-16 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
Glad to know that box is still getting use!

Date: 2008-02-16 02:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kahnegabs.livejournal.com
As many have said, thank you for posting this. Your essay is very helpful to me. I hadn’t realized that other people I think of as intelligent and capable and totally “together” have these feelings too.

It's helpful to know that I'm not the only one who lives in that lonely place far too often. In my last few years, I've watched someone who has long been a hero to me fight off this sort of inclination far better than I have ever learned to do.

You mention facing up to the inclination to sink to NobodyLovesMeLand, by mocking the feelings that cause it. In particular, I believe my daughter used mocking to chase away her fear of death when she was all too aware of it's proximity. Her fascination with Christopher Moore, I think, was part of her ‘mock death’ rather than being afraid of it scheme. I can see that standing up and facing my great fears and lonely feelings is the only way I've ever been able to shove them down. I just don't do it often enough!

I think there may be a brain chemical content to these feelings. Some people seem to be much more Susceptible than others, even when their situation doesn't appear to be any worse than someone else's.

I believe you are saying that the “eat worms” attitude causes chemical changes that increase the need to “eat worms?” Actually, I rather think this is true. If I don’t fight it off, the first ‘worm‘ turns into an entire menu of ‘worms. It’s something I’ve fought off for much of my adult life.

I’ve felt that there must be some hormone in the system that makes certain of us like that. I can’t really see that my life has been anywhere near as difficult as that of my daughter, and yet she almost never seemed to feel that ‘nobody loved her’ even in the worst of times, and I seem to feel that way, even in some of the best of times. It doesn’t take much to push me into the totally depressed state. I try to fight it off all the time. These days, it’s especially difficult. I’m consciously trying to use my dauther as a model to see if it helps prevent that attitude. She always seemed to feel that people did, indeed, love her -- and they did.

She was not like that as a child, you know. This is something she built into herself, possibly aided by the undeniable parental devotion she received when she was sick as a teenager. Maybe some of us just don't get a chance to have people demonstrate our "lovability" when we are young enough to believe it. I try to be lovable by being helpful, and yet it seems like it just puts some people off and makes them feel that I am being "controlling." I wasn't trying to control them. I was trying to control my own self.

Now I'm just trying to be myself and let others decide what they decide, and to not worry about it. Do you think that's possible?

Date: 2008-02-16 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
Interestingly, Teresa was one of the people I'd had a "What, you too?" conversation with in the last couple of years on this topic. And I think you're dead-on that dragging the fears out in the open and mocking them seems to have been a favorite strategy of hers. It doesn't make them go away, and it doesn't even necessarily make them less scary. But there's a power in being able to say out loud, "The monster under my bed: Let me show you it." (Hmm, why am I thinking in LOL-speak all of a sudden?)

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From: [identity profile] green-knight.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-18 11:48 am (UTC) - Expand

TRUE

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Date: 2008-02-16 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarahbellem.livejournal.com
The way we appear to others is so vastly different online than in the real world, too. I think this medium tends to invite worm eating; I know a lot of my navel gazing posts unintentionally turn into worm feasts, and I've seen it happen to others as well. I've lost count of the number of times people I interact with both online and in real life have pointed out at how different I am between the two worlds (usually making the observation that I'm a lot more mellow in real life, which always comes off sounding like a mixed complement).

It's so strange to me, the need to eat worms that sometimes overtakes me. I'm starting to examine the cyclical nature of the urge, and realizing that it's probably chemistry-related, because it does not seem to be an in-born trait in my personality (you'd find it hard to believe just going off of what I tend to write here... In a way, I kind of regret being so open about everything I experience, because there is no more mystery, and just a lot of misinterpretation). But yeah, it is there and when I am in my weaker moments, it does overtake and I end up posting whingey posts on my LJ.

My personal view is that worm eating is not a bad thing, so long as the feeling passes after a short time. For me, it'll be a day or two, and then I'm over it. I'm also starting to write private posts a lot more often, to just get the feelings out of my head. The audience participation of LJ is fabulous, but it's taken me a lot of time to realize that no, really, everyone does NOT need to know all the crap that goes on inside my head at any given moment. ;)

Date: 2008-02-16 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
*laugh* I confess that when reading your journal I often find myself hoping that your life isn't really as fraught with doubts as your LJ is! It's reassuring to know that it's simply the box where you stash the doubts to deal with them.

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From: [identity profile] sarahbellem.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-16 10:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-02-16 03:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scotica.livejournal.com
Now, see, here is one of the differences between us. You managed to figure out the magic bullet all on your own, while I have had to pay big bucks to a professional for months and months. (This is, btw, one of the many things I like and admire about you -- another is that you can analyze it so well and share it with the rest of us!) Now, admittedly, at my first or second session my therapist did tell me that simply noticing and recognizing what I was doing would, in and of itself, help. I didn't believe her then, but since that time, as I have been learning to put it into practice, I have realized that, lo, she is right.

And it has been very helpful to me, in my current process, to be going through it at the same time that you and some of our other friends have been talking about these and related issues. Somehow, seeing that speaking truth to neurosis (I like that phrase!) works for others, as well as seeing the difference in myself, have helped convince me it is real and really works.

Not that it is easy, of course, or all that is needed to solve every problem, but still...

Date: 2008-02-16 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
(place-holding note because I decided it was important to reply to all the responses on this thread, but anything I had to say got said over dinner last night)

Date: 2008-02-16 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] albionwood.livejournal.com
Diet of Worms! The memorable answer (given by [livejournal.com profile] alcapini) to a Medieval Jeopardy question at a Collegium long ago...

Date: 2008-02-16 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
It did kinda just offer itself up as a subject line, didn't it?

Date: 2008-02-16 06:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] answers-within.livejournal.com
Wow. I got here from a link in a mutual friend's post, and I'm extremely glad I took the time.

Inner process, especially about negative stuff, is a bugger. It's a bugger to deal with, a bugger to express to others, to keep it from owning one's life, etc. etc.

Your recounting is really lovely to read - it's clear and succinct, as I would expect from you, but you're also *there* in it. Talking about the hard stuff can seem easier with a big dose of detachment, but that also robs it of its power, or at least it has for me. But then again, I seem to be a lot like you, in that the "drag the Hydra into the light" method is the only thing that has worked for me too. Self-revelation of the right kind, to anyone who cared to hear it, has been a sovereign remedy. I know it doesn't work for everyone, and for some it's not nearly enough, but it's been key for me.

I find that age has played a part for me too. Each of us has our own threshold for this, but turning 40 last year has had a profound impact on me. I've found myself snapping out of wormy moments with this crisp, clear sense that LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR THIS. It's not self-condemnation, which only backs up another truck of squirmers, but a simple acknowledgment that I have limited time left and want to choose more wisely how I spend it. It's not always that easy, of course, but it makes me happy that arriving at the approximate midpoint of my life seems to have contributed a valuable perspective brick-to-the-head about my priorities.

I also really think you nailed the issue on the element that - if you'll pardon the cliche - "perception is reality". Trudging down that path to no-one-loves-me-land *requires* that we carefully edit our experiences to validate that belief, and I think that's a part that people miss a lot.

I've done it too, of course, but I can remember many times of immense frustration with friends who clung to their misery like a favorite teddy bear. A particularly Eeyore-ish friend comes to mind, who after ending up single after a many-year relationship kept lamenting that there were "no good men available" and that she was "old and unattractive" and would surely die single. She flatly refused to believe the many of us who told her about the men we'd seen express interest in her, only to be rebuffed by her relentless self-denigration and go away. The willingness to let go of these beliefs and cease selectively reinforcing them is a necessary step in the process, though you did an excellent job of describing the ambivalence at the heart of it! There's a comfort there, a reward of the most contrary sort, and it takes courage to admit that some part of you has no intention of giving up the juice you get out of it.

Goodness, I hadn't meant to go on at such a rate, but good writing and courageous self-revelation inspire me. I thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, and our friend for pointing others to this post.

Date: 2008-02-16 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
Thanks for the feedback (and for dropping by). I share your frustration with the friends/acquaintances who get as far as "sharing my internal script" but don't seem to take the step to "using that as a tool for changing the script". I know of one person (who I see a lot on a usenet group but also know in person) who is quite open about sharing her "I'm no good nobody loves me" scripts but is so stubbornly resistant to feedback on them that I want to scream, "Keep it up and everyone will get the message to not even try to help!" It's a case where the "kicking in the teeth" aspect is being played out in public and I find it a wonder that anyone still tries.

Date: 2008-02-16 06:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bedouinchick.livejournal.com
Yup-yup-yup. I eat worms regularly and I don't like it at all. I take meds, I jump around in dance class three or four times a week and I still get a bowlful of pink wigglers on a regular basis. I hate to think what the serving size would be without the pills and exercise.

The big dog analogy is great -- thanks for giving me a more lighthearted image of my head attempting to run amok. And I love the "I am Sparticus and I eat worms!" line. That about sums up the absurdity of Being Strong and Solitary when one is in pain. It makes me laugh to think of myself in such a way and I believe this line along with the dog and squirrel image will come in handy the next time I whip up a steaming bowl of worm soup.

BTW, I've come to think that this LJ thing is kind of a nice way to discover whether or not a flesh and blood friendship could actually develop based upon things talked about in one's journal. Heck, I'm stoopid enough to admit it: I friended you (and a few others I don't know well personally) so I can get to know you better and find threads of commonality so mebbe we could hang out some time, even briefly. Right now, I don't feel I can do that yet -- I'm too skeered and intimidated -- I know, I know, there's prolly nothing to be skeered of but that's *my* insecurity thing and it's right next door to the Worm Ranch. But hey, it's worth a try, no?

Date: 2008-02-16 06:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
I sometimes think of LJ as the equivalent of a long night road trip on a dark highway -- the sort where you find yourself sharing the most surprising things with near-strangers and emerging at the end with the relationship transformed in ways that years of everyday encounters couldn't do.

I know from experience that about the only way for me to make new close friends is to interact with them casually on a regular basis long enough to build up a shared pool of experience and a sound basis of trust. This is why I have a really hard time making new close friends at SCA events or sf conventions. I'm not one of those people who can walk up to someone, strike up a conversation, and make a new best friend by the end of the day. (Heck, I've known [livejournal.com profile] thread_walker for about a decade in the SCA and we didn't become friends until we started working for the same company! Which was way too long to wait, but it's the only way it was going to happen.)

You want to know one of my favorite worms? "I keep hearing at second hand about all these people who admire me ... but why won't any of them TALK TO ME!"

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From: [identity profile] wulfsdottir.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-16 06:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] bedouinchick.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-02-16 06:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2008-02-16 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wulfsdottir.livejournal.com
Wow - I thought a lot of things on reading this post, but I think the response it deserves most (besides "Thanks for sharing!) is...

"I am Spartacus, and I eat Worms!"

Date: 2008-02-17 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
*hmm* I had a suspicion you might be another member of the club.

Date: 2008-02-16 10:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j-i-m-r.livejournal.com
I'm so pleased you enjoyed your party. It was great fun to do, and you deserved every bit of it :-)
Worms are not good with garlic. Worms are not good with chocolate. Therefore, worms do not make a good diet.

Date: 2008-02-17 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
I rather suspect you might be wrong about the garlic thing. But I'll agree wholeheartedly about chocolate.

Date: 2008-02-17 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mbumby.livejournal.com
Wow. Thank you for this post. I've been there many times, and usually I decide pretty quickly that I never want to leave. But something (usually music) will grab me, tickle me, and bring me back to "real life".

I don't go there so often now. Don't know if that is because I've started caring less about what others think, or if I'm just so busy and so flipping tired all of the time, I don't have any energy left to take even that much of a stand.

*Very* sorry to hear that filking has become so negative for you -- several times (~20 years ago) *fandom* became the worm-pit for me, but filking drew me out.

I hope that the next time I go to nobodylovesmeland and order up a plate of big fat juicy ones I'll remember this post, laugh at myself, and call someone to go for ice cream and coffee.

Date: 2008-02-17 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com
I tend to think that fandom and filking (and to some extent the SCA) are particular danger-zones because each has some version of the tribal myth that "we are all one close, caring, accepting, friendly family -- unlike the cold, rejecting, uncaring mundane world". Whereas, in reality, they share all the variability, flaws, and basic primate dynamics of any human society. But the contrast between the tribal myth and the reality tends to set people up to blame themselves if their own experience doesn't match the myth.

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From: [identity profile] mariedeblois.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-10-11 02:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] hrj.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-10-12 05:45 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] mariedeblois.livejournal.com - Date: 2013-04-22 10:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

(surfacing briefly)

Date: 2008-02-17 09:26 pm (UTC)
ext_143250: 1911 Mystery lady (Default)
From: [identity profile] xrian.livejournal.com
Wow, great stuff. Thanks for posting this.

I'm off on my own peculiar tangent at the moment, and maybe I'll write about it at some point, but it's good to hear you talk about this. And hi, everyone else {waves}

Date: 2008-02-18 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dr-zrfq.livejournal.com
Thank you for this post. I am slowly working through how it relates to my own situation.

Oddly enough, a similar party (of sorts) is one thing (among others) that can remind me to stop myself from going down the road to nobodylovesmeland. Four years ago this week, I was made a Companion of the Pelican... and people came to Atlantia from the East, from AEthelmearc, and from Drachenwald to be present. The following day [livejournal.com profile] herveus and Megan hosted a post-revel for the gang. Everyone was there to celebrate my accomplishments, at least as the proximate cause for being together.

As difficult as the last four years have been, that knowledge has kept me afloat at times. That a major reason why, two weeks ago, I was heartened to see most of the same crew (plus several others) get together and celebrate [livejournal.com profile] wanderingpixie's induction into the Pelicans. It may sound stupid, but the knowledge that people out there *do* love you and respect you really is useful.
Edited Date: 2008-02-18 11:17 pm (UTC)

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